The Healthcare Influence Gap
Welcome to the Health Marketing Collective, where strong leadership meets marketing excellence.
On today’s episode, Ryan Cohn, partner and chief strategy officer at Sachs Media, joins Sara Payne to unpack new research from the 2026 SachsHEALTH Influence Index. Together, they explore the crucial theme of trust in healthcare, examining why the most influential voices in the system aren’t necessarily the ones Americans want to hear from, and what healthcare marketers can do about it.
As organizations grapple with the shifting landscape of trust and influence, Ryan reveals eye-opening survey data from 2,500 US adults, showing wide gaps between who currently shapes healthcare narratives and who the public wants in charge. Sara and Ryan discuss how these gaps are affecting patient behaviors, fueling active noncompliance, and challenging assumptions about the roles of clinicians and insurers alike. They also provide practical strategies for healthcare marketing leaders to rebuild trust by elevating authentic, credible voices and pulling back the curtain on the invisible forces that shape care decisions.
Key Takeaways
The Influence Gap Is Undermining Trust and Compliance
Sara Payne and Ryan Cohn break down the disconnect revealed in the SachsHEALTH Influence Index (00:18–03:37): only 26% of Americans believe clinicians hold significant influence over healthcare today, though 58% wish they did. Meanwhile, insurers are seen as highly influential by 51%, but only 15% want that to be the case. This “influence gap” directly affects patient behaviors, causing many to ignore or act against physician recommendations due to distrust in the broader system.
Patients Need Transparency About the System’s Invisible Hand
While clinicians remain highly trusted, nearly half of Americans have chosen to go against their doctor’s advice in the past year because they distrust the healthcare system (04:32–05:12). Patients are wary of the unseen influences like insurance requirements and cost considerations that shape medical decisions. Ryan urges marketers to foster transparency, demystifying the forces at play, so patients can more confidently engage in their care.
Elevate Clinicians, Advocates, and Trusted Messengers Not Just the CEO
Health organizations often default to their CEO as the primary spokesperson, but survey data shows clinicians, nurses, pharmacists, and even patient advocacy groups are the voices Americans want to hear from most (13:53–14:56). Ryan Cohn encourages marketing leaders to identify and train credible internal experts or partner with external key opinion leaders (KOLs) and ensure their authentic perspectives reach the public. Authenticity and expertise trump corporate talking points.
Skeptical Audiences Demand Evidence, Balance, and Honesty
For Americans who distrust the healthcare system, “better messaging” isn’t enough: they need verifiable evidence, clear trade-offs, and a candid presentation of risks and benefits (22:15–23:59). Skeptics want receipts. Ryan Cohn and Sara Payne discuss the importance of showing your work, providing data in accessible ways, and not shying away from sharing what’s imperfect or uncomfortable.
Authentic Communication and Listening Build Lasting Trust
Ultimately, trust can’t be rebuilt through messaging alone; it must be earned through honest, two-way engagement (32:05–34:58). Sara and Ryan emphasize the value of admitting when the system falls short, listening to patient feedback, and openly discussing progress and challenges. Organizations that create space for authentic clinical voices and prioritize transparent, balanced communication will foster deeper connection, loyalty, and better health outcomes.
Thank you for joining the Health Marketing Collective, where strong leadership meets marketing excellence. The future of healthcare depends on it.
About Ryan Cohn
Ryan Cohn is Partner and Chief Strategy Officer at Sachs Media and founder of SachsHEALTH. He has spent nearly two decades advising health systems, pharmaceutical companies, patient groups, and industry associations on public affairs, advocacy, and crisis communications across more than 35 states and Washington, D.C.
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Sara Payne [00:00:10]:
Welcome back to the Health Marketing Collective, where strong leadership meets marketing excellence. I'm your host, Sara Payne. Today we're talking about trust. New research has revealed that the people with the most power in healthcare aren't necessarily the people Americans trust the most. Americans still trust their doctors, but according to the 2026 SACS Health Influence Index, 42% of us have acted against a clinician's recommendation because we distrust the larger healthcare system. There's another disconnect. Only 26% of Americans believe doctors and nurses have a significant influence over healthcare today, but 58% believe that they should. Insurers land on the opposite side.
Sara Payne [00:00:52]:
51% are seen as influential, but only 15% of Americans believe they should be. What does all of this tell us? The people with the most power in healthcare are not necessarily the people the public wants to hear from. Today, we're diving into this survey data and exploring what that influence gap means for healthcare marketing leaders. Who gets to speak for healthcare? Who has earned the right to be believed? And what responsibility do marketers have for elevating the right voices? Joining me is Ryan Cohn, partner and chief strategy officer at Sacks Media. which conducted the national survey of 2,500 US adults. Ryan, welcome to the show.
Ryan Cohn [00:01:27]:
Thanks so much for having me, Sara.
Sara Payne [00:01:30]:
Yeah, I'm excited to dive into this. Let's get right into that data. If Americans still trust their doctors, why is it that trust no longer— that trust is no longer enough to persuade them to follow their doctor's advice?
Ryan Cohn [00:01:44]:
Well, let me start by sharing a little bit about Why we came about this research, because I think it's really important setting the table on that question.
Sara Payne [00:01:55]:
Absolutely.
Ryan Cohn [00:01:56]:
So last year we had a lot of healthcare clients engaged on Capitol Hill during the Medicaid negotiations all around big beautiful bill. And they, they went in believing that they had real influence and then they came out learning that it was a lot smaller than they had thought. Uh, afterward, the question that we kept hearing again and again was, how do people actually see us? And what power do we really have today? So we built the Sex Health Influence Index around this question of what if the people that Americans trust most in healthcare are the ones that they hear from least? So like you pointed out, we ran the survey, 2,500 Americans, and we asked them over 60 questions. Everyone does a trust survey, but we wanted to measure influence today. You know, who holds the mic and who do people want holding it?
Sara Payne [00:03:02]:
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Cohn [00:03:03]:
So that answer to our question was really striking. Only 26% of Americans say that clinicians shape the healthcare narrative today, but 58% say they should. That was the widest gap of any group that we measured. Insurers show the reverse. 51% say they have the influence today, But only 25% say that they should. And that gap right there between current perceived influence and desired influence is what we call the influence gap.
Sara Payne [00:03:51]:
Great. Yeah. So this gap that we have is influencing also people's decisions, right? Right? It isn't just showing up in trust or influence, it's actually influencing behaviors and decisions that people are making in their lives. And you were sort of calling this the invisible hand of healthcare, if you will, that the forces that patients believe might be influencing their care behind the scenes is coming into play a little bit in terms of that doctor-patient relationship. Can you expand on that a little bit?
Ryan Cohn [00:04:32]:
Exactly. So people trust their doctors, their clinicians so much. They're really, I mean, they're the pinnacle of trust within the healthcare system today. But it was this finding that really surprised us quite a bit. In the past year, 42% of Americans say they acted against their clinician's advice Because they distrust the healthcare system. That includes delaying a treatment, skipping a vaccine or a medical test, or changing a dose on their own. It's active noncompliance, not just passive skepticism.
Sara Payne [00:05:17]:
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Cohn [00:05:18]:
We figured that people would be skeptical, that they would have those attitudes that, you know, would put them at odds with the system. Oh, the system is bad. Rawr. But to actively say, no, I'm potentially going against the recommendations of my doctor who I trust dearly in ways that actually may hurt me, that was pretty shocking. Yeah. So when you bring up, you know, you bring up the invisible hand of healthcare, you know, and we dove even deeper into that trying to look at, okay, well, why? Why do you have that gap? And how we see it is this, you know, your doctor prescribes an older, cheaper medication first. You know, she knows the insurer requires you to try to fill it and fail before they'll cover the new one. You know, she's playing the game on your behalf, but she never says so.
Ryan Cohn [00:06:15]:
So the patient walks out thinking, is this really what's best for me? Or what's cheapest for somebody else. So it's those forces, the external forces that we don't necessarily see. It's what's behind the curtain that might be influencing our doctor, and that puts us at odds with the system.
Sara Payne [00:06:37]:
Yeah, for sure. I mean, this this is definitely a statistic I believe a lot of healthcare companies, brands, marketing leaders need to pay a lot of attention to because I think. Many of us already kind of in the industry already knew we had, you know, an adherence problem when it comes to medication, right? We might have a compliance issue in terms of following through with recommended treatment protocols. But did we realize that there was this other, what you're calling the invisible hand component to it, which is, you know, it may not just be cost, it may not just be Right. Access or, or whatever that thing is that we think it is in healthcare, but it also has a great deal to do with trust.
Ryan Cohn [00:07:24]:
Absolutely.
Sara Payne [00:07:25]:
And as an industry, we gotta, we have to reckon with that, right? I mean, we've, we've got to, we've got to build a bridge there to, to reestablish that trust.
Ryan Cohn [00:07:36]:
Absolutely. You know, affordability is of course on everyone's minds today and it should be. But I do get the sense that people are so focused on the money and they're missing this very, very important component of trust. And you're right, telling patients to trust harder isn't going to fix this.
Sara Payne [00:08:01]:
Right.
Ryan Cohn [00:08:02]:
You've got to explain what's happening behind the scenes, leaning into transparency, pulling back the curtain some. And sharing, hey, this is how it is, and actually being forthcoming, forthright with patients. I mean, that's what they want today. They want to know what's actually going on.
Sara Payne [00:08:21]:
Yeah. So you talked about, um, people want us to be forthcoming with them. And, um, I know I'm kind of jumping ahead to towards the end, which is like, what should marketers do about it? But it feels like we're kind of at a point in the conversation where we kind of have to address at least a little bit of an introduction here to what some of the solve might be. So my question was, how— what does it look like to be more forthcoming with patients? You know, what should we as marketing leaders be doing and brands to be more forthcoming?
Ryan Cohn [00:08:59]:
So what we tend to see is this desire to share just the amount of information that's necessary with patients. but not to sometimes go into the depth and detail that they're really looking for today. It may be because we don't necessarily think that a patient is going to care or that they'll understand the inner workings of the industry. What we find, though, is that they actually do understand a lot more than sometimes we give them credit for. We never want to go into those conversations with patients or their families with corporate talking points. But we know that our clinicians are so trusted that if we help to guide them with the messaging that's really going to stick, that's going to hopefully share a little bit more than we have in the past, we arm our clinicians with those tools to be able to help recraft some of the narrative and to help dissuade some of the skepticism that patients are facing today so that they feel like, you know, I get it. I may not like every bit of the system how it is. I may not be able to afford everything.
Ryan Cohn [00:10:22]:
I may now see why you have to prescribe this. But it also may make patients more active participants, more engaged in their healthcare journey And working more in a collaborative relationship with their clinicians. And isn't that what we actually want at the end of the day?
Sara Payne [00:10:43]:
Yeah, I think you're right about that. I think pulling back the curtain and helping people understand, you know, potential— we need to go, you know, if where we want to be is at number 3 over here, but I have to get you through 1 and 2 first, right? Having someone understand what that pathway needs to look like and You know, maybe there's a possibility that 1 or 2 works just as well as we might think No. 3 does. And maybe, you know, some of that is by design in the system, right? Maybe some of it isn't. But being transparent and allowing people to see that process, to your point, I think opens the door for more conversation and questions to understand why, why this, why this, and then what comes next.
Ryan Cohn [00:11:28]:
You know, I, I think that makes a lot of sense. And it really, like I said, it's about arming clinicians, whether they're doctors, nurses, pharmacists, those who are trusted on the front lines, give them the information that they need to help guide their patients, to persuade in many cases, because I mean, what we've seen with the data it's really clear about what and who moves people today. We found that half of Americans say that their personal doctor is one of the top sources who are most likely to change their mind about a health policy proposal.
Sara Payne [00:12:09]:
Hmm.
Ryan Cohn [00:12:10]:
Not just medicine, but actual health policy. And that's really apparent. I mean, even more so than federal agencies or the President of the United States, for that matter. I'll say though, patient advocacy groups are also a big untapped voice that the public wants to hear from a lot more today. So we need to realize we've got some trusted voices that are often going underrepresented in our national narrative around healthcare today. And it's all about positioning them to be able to have those trusted conversations and share information that sometimes we don't even think that they'll want to be the voice of. But in many cases, they care about more deeply than just about anyone else and know that they can be a great messenger for whatever we need.
Sara Payne [00:13:07]:
Yeah, I love that. I think that's a really helpful solution to the problem here, right? Which is we need, we need to be elevating these trusted voices who We're not seeing enough of, and there's there's an appetite for that. And I guess the question is, Ryan, why is that? Right? Like why why haven't clinicians, researchers, patient advocates been able to translate their credibility into into greater influence now? Okay, I think the obvious answer on clinicians is they're busy being with patients day to day, right? So there there is an obvious answer right there. But I do think that there is still a conversation to be had about. Why we're not doing more to elevate those voices?
Ryan Cohn [00:13:53]:
I think that sometimes it's just a matter of who we decide as healthcare leaders, who we decide to put in front of the camera, who do we decide to elevate as a major voice or spokesperson. Marketing leaders really have to make a key decision, you know, who's going to speak for my organization and what are they going to talk about? When it comes to who speaks, most organizations still default to their CEO.
Sara Payne [00:14:29]:
Yep.
Ryan Cohn [00:14:30]:
Since this research came out, we've been pushing, recommending clients to put their chief medical officer or their chief nursing executive out in front instead. They're such credible messengers, but they're often never put in front of the camera. And they're, they're still, they're busy, but they are leaders. They know what to say and they have the credentials to show for it all. So the right voice often depends also on the issue. And we see, for instance, also that clinicians are especially trusted. They really lead on patient safety. So we want to make sure to elevate their voices there.
Ryan Cohn [00:15:18]:
There are other issues, for instance, cost and access, that it may make sense to put others out front on. But we really need to look sometimes at the circumstances also.
Sara Payne [00:15:31]:
Yeah, I'm really glad that you made this point because I agree with you wholeheartedly. We see this a lot in our work as well, that the credentialed voices need to be elevated more. Fact of the matter is, it's not only what consumers, patients want to hear, but it's also what journalists want to hear, right? They are, they often have a very informed scientific point of view that is perceived to be very trusted and not just in the interest of the business. And that's part of where that trust factor comes in, right? Yeah. And I, so I'm glad you said this. Not every brand and organization, though, is fortunate to have a chief medical officer or chief nursing officer. Many of them do, of course, but not everyone does. And what I've seen be successful is that organizations are linking arms with, they might be, they might have a KOL bench, for example.
Sara Payne [00:16:28]:
They might have a bench of surgeons that are, you know, well-informed, on this particular disease state or treatment option, whatever it is, that are sort of brought into the organization to serve as an extension of patient awareness, patient education around these key topics. And even though they are not employed, right, as you know, they are not an employee of your organization, they are able to serve as a voice in a awareness campaign and education campaign, helping to get the word out and can be an incredibly trusted voice even without being an employee. What's your take on that?
Ryan Cohn [00:17:12]:
Absolutely. I mean, when you've got— I love when I start working with a new client and we go through a variety of different meetings with various stakeholders and suddenly come across someone who you start talking to and you're like, wow, how have you never been put front and center before? You have such great information to share. You're clearly very credible. I get that you're very busy, but we've got to get you out there more. And so that's something that I definitely see a great opportunity to do more of. Sometimes you have to, you know, you pull up the rocks and find find those folks internally who you just never thought about before. Now, sometimes they need a little extra media training. Got to get them prepped up.
Ryan Cohn [00:18:07]:
You never want them to memorize lines. But if you can really help them to crystallize some of their thinking, get down 2 or 3 key points, understand how to share the facts and the truth, sometimes even including parts that Aren't as flattering.
Sara Payne [00:18:25]:
Yeah.
Ryan Cohn [00:18:26]:
It's that credibility. It's the authenticity that really stands out.
Sara Payne [00:18:30]:
Yeah. I agree with you that, um, we have to be very careful when selecting and elevating those leaders, whether it's a chief medical officer or an external KOL, that we are not becoming overbearing with a script, right? It needs to be authentic to their expertise. their lived experience as a practicing or formerly practicing clinician in this space to be able to bring up those real examples of, you know, sometimes it comes down to a tough decision. It has to be individualized to the patient. You know, getting into those kinds of nuances is really important and not just delivering a script because otherwise I think we risk coming across as having put a white coat around a corporate message.
Ryan Cohn [00:19:21]:
That's a really great point. You have to let clinicians explain what they're doing to get their patients the best outcome within the system as it stands today. It's that transparency is— that's what's going to earn trust back.
Sara Payne [00:19:40]:
Yeah, totally agree with that. And, and again, I think this is, this is an important conversation that needs to be understood culturally inside of an organization amongst the, not just the marketing team and corporate communications, but all the way up to the top, right? There is a space and time at the table for your CEO and other executive voices. And there is space and time at the table for these clinical leadership voices. And it's, it's not one or the other, it's both. And understanding that we need to allow for the true authenticity to play out because trust will grow. And that, that's what we're after, right? When you have increased trust, you are going to earn more customers. You're going to earn more loyalty. You're going to earn more business.
Sara Payne [00:20:28]:
You're going to earn more revenue in the long term, but you have to be willing to make space, space for both of those voices and for to allow it to be authentic.
Ryan Cohn [00:20:39]:
Yeah, you're, you're exactly right there. It's, it comes down so much to the authenticity. To helping a clinician go front and center to understand also that not everyone that's going to hear from them may necessarily understand the ins and outs, so they may need to explain it a little different than they're used to. Maybe don't use as much jargon. Maybe speak. A little slower, explain some parts, because people want to learn more. They want to learn the good, the bad, the ugly of it all. They just may need a little extra help guiding them through that process, but they trust you.
Ryan Cohn [00:21:28]:
So take the time if you can and work with them. It'll be worth it.
Sara Payne [00:21:34]:
Yeah, I was wondering if there's anything else in terms of practical advice that we should be thinking about as it pertains to skeptical audiences, and those numbers are pretty high, right? So this isn't like this is a small percentage of people that have skepticism, right? Those numbers are pretty high. So as marketing leaders, we have a great deal of responsibility to help provide the right kind of communication and the right kind of information. We've already highlighted a couple of things. One of those things being make sure you've got the right people, the right voices at the table delivering those messages. What else do skeptical audiences need from our communications?
Ryan Cohn [00:22:15]:
So with skeptics, better messaging alone isn't going to work. Among Americans who distrust this healthcare system today, evidence that they can check is the top credibility factor. We found that it was at 54%. Higher than anything else.
Sara Payne [00:22:36]:
Wow.
Ryan Cohn [00:22:37]:
They're also more likely than others to want to understand, to hear the trade-offs, the risks, not just the benefits. They want receipts. And when you show them your work, you can bring some of those skeptics along with you. You can change minds.
Sara Payne [00:23:01]:
Yeah, this, this is really interesting. You know, when you talk about bringing the balance, right, talking about the downsides, both the pros and the cons. That's interesting, because that's one of the factors that, that the LLMs are looking at in terms of what information they are going to trust and serve up to people. It's balanced information. So this is yet another double down on that for communicators and health marketing leaders out there. Make sure you are presenting both sides of the story here and not just what may be flattering, uh, the flattering side of the story.
Ryan Cohn [00:23:38]:
Absolutely. You don't want to sugarcoat it. Give a little bit extra. Like I said, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Sometimes people want the facts and the truth. And if you can be that trusted source of, of information, of data, of knowledge, then they're going to keep coming back to you. And like you said, the LLMs are going to see you as a trusted authoritative resource more now than ever. That's really important to set a strong foundation for information sharing for what may be years to come.
Sara Payne [00:24:14]:
Completely agree. You also mentioned showing your work, making sure you're providing evidence that they can check. You know, evidence that's readily available for them to reference. In your mind, what does good look like there, right? Like, like, how— what are we talking about? What level, what level of information, uh, do you think it meets that sort of evidence that they can, that they can check on their own?
Ryan Cohn [00:24:41]:
Oftentimes that information is even getting shared right now, but it's not in ways that are easy for people to understand. And it's even harder for the LLMs to process it. We need to make sure that we're serving up information, especially healthcare information that can be complex, it can be nuanced. We need to put it in, in ways that our audience understands. That they're going to get it. So that may not be just here's text or here's a big data file, but here's a visualization that helps people to actually understand what we're trying to present. How about we take it and we don't just put the data out there, but we also present an easy-to-understand depiction with a real person, with an experience that a clinician has found themselves in to where people can really put themselves in the shoes of, say, a patient, of a story. Putting, you know, they put 2 and 2 together and they suddenly go, oh, I get it.
Ryan Cohn [00:25:58]:
I see how this all works out. And for the LLMs, making sure that the information that you want surfaced in your LLM results is front and center, that it's easy to understand, to process, that like, you know, search engine optimization has been for years, making sure that the schemas are right and that everything is structured properly. And sometimes it's just a matter of not hiding the information in a lengthy PDF report, That is gated, that makes it really hard for anyone, whether it's people or machines, to get to. Put it out front and center and it's going to be helpful.
Sara Payne [00:26:43]:
Yeah, this is making me think of the, the really fast disclaimers at the end of the, the pharma ads, right? Um, which, you know, my children get a kick out of, uh, because they talk so fast that it like gets your attention, right? And then you're talking about all the worst-case scenarios. I get it. It's required, it's important. But that's not necessarily, right? That's the fine print. That's the checking the box. We're putting it in there because we need to. And what you're saying is we've gotta do better than that, right? We've gotta, we've got to sort of embrace that part of the conversation, which is, hey, this treatment, whatever it is, XYZ, may not be for everyone. And here are the realities of that.
Sara Payne [00:27:27]:
Here's how to know. Here are questions to ask your clinician to know if this is right for you. Yeah. Here's this article information over here to read more about what the potential side effects are. Right now I'm getting, I'm, I'm getting really specific on a pharma example here. Um, and I didn't necessarily mean to make it that specific, but that's what it made me think of. And, uh, that's not enough, right? The, the quickly giving me 5 seconds of somebody talking really fast at the end of a commercial is not enough.
Ryan Cohn [00:27:58]:
People want authenticity. They want all the information that you've got. They don't want it hidden. They want to know it all. They may not believe it all, but they want the evidence, and they'll take the time to look it over. Or frankly, I mean, at a minimum, they'll put it into their favorite LLM AI tool and have it tell them what they should know. Yeah. But people, because skepticism is so high today, it just means that the bar for facts and truth is that much higher.
Ryan Cohn [00:28:37]:
And we need to trust our audiences. We need to realize that they can take some more info. It's okay to overshare a little bit because At the end of the day, if we can continue sharing that information, putting it in easy-to-understand ways, sharing with them, like you said, not just the benefits, but also some of the, you know, the side effects, the skepticism, give that to them, let them process it. And you may be surprised what questions they ask in return that make you go, oh, wow. Okay, I never expected that you were going to go there with this. But now we're going to have a really good deep conversation. And we can work together to generate some really great healthcare outcomes.
Sara Payne [00:29:33]:
Yeah, and this is making me think, you know, about the importance of research and focus groups and really sitting at the table While people are receiving information, communications from your organization and hearing in real time how they're processing that, what additional questions are coming up. You know, we've, we've talked quite a bit on the show about the importance of really listening to your customers and understanding what their needs are. And I think this is just another argument.
Ryan Cohn [00:30:10]:
Absolutely. I mean, you've got to listen first. It's understanding the demand that's out there, hearing from people what's on their minds. Sometimes we don't have great answers though. And that's sometimes— that's the big challenge. I remember back during the pandemic, we were doing a lot of survey research. to try to understand what were people feeling in the moments as everything was just really ramping up with COVID And we started to see some of those early trends of an evolving mental health crisis, especially amongst young people in America.
Sara Payne [00:30:53]:
Mm-hmm.
Ryan Cohn [00:30:54]:
And I remember asking a friend of mine who was a fairly high-ranking executive at a big health system, Said, why, why is this, you know, clearly this is on people's minds. We're seeing that they want healthcare leaders talking more about mental health. Well, why aren't any of us talking about it? And he said, you know, Ryan, people want to hear more about mental health, but unfortunately we don't have a lot that's good to say about it. And that's sometimes the challenge.
Sara Payne [00:31:32]:
Yeah.
Ryan Cohn [00:31:32]:
Because a healthcare leader or organization has what they want to say, but then there's what their audience, what consumers or different stakeholder groups, what they want to hear. And you've got to find that midpoint where everyone comes together and can actually have a conversation where Where they're engaged, where you're both listening and you're sharing really helpful, valuable information.
Sara Payne [00:32:05]:
Yeah, that's a great point. And I agree with you on that. I think sometimes talking about the uncomfortable, talking about the imperfection, right? Like we're building towards better, but we're not there yet. Right? We might still be in the ugly middle. But this is— understand, as an organization, this is where we're committed to going. And here's what we're doing now. Right? And we maybe not, we're not, haven't 100% arrived at the destination, but that we're going to keep going until we do. Right? I think there's a lot of power in, and a lot of trust building in those types of messages of just being real.
Sara Payne [00:32:49]:
about where things are and being willing to acknowledge the imperfection of where we are and the discomfort of where we are, especially as it pertains to sensitive topics like mental health or addiction or— right, whatever that is. I think that's really important. For us to be paying attention to? Because again, I think there's a lot of trust-building moments inside of those conversations.
Ryan Cohn [00:33:23]:
It's okay sometimes to say, we don't have a good answer. We don't know. That builds trust. It builds connection. It builds those relationships. But then to go that next level to say, hey, We're going to go on the journey together. I will share with you everything I know and we'll see what's possible to where people at least know, hey, I'm not in it alone.
Sara Payne [00:33:54]:
Yeah.
Ryan Cohn [00:33:54]:
I've got a system wrapped around me that's trying to get me across the finish line, even if we're not there quite yet.
Sara Payne [00:34:02]:
Totally agree. Yeah. And I mean, this is an important point to acknowledge in this conversation is that, you know, a trusted spokesperson or a great communications message can't compensate for an experience inside of healthcare that continually gives people reasons to be skeptical, right? So, you know, there's only so much of this trust problem that we can put on communications, right? And at some point, there's the operational and the business model problems that have to be addressed outside of that, which is why I think you're seeing so many chief marketing officers turning into chief experience officers. or overseeing the experience team, because that customer loyalty and retention at the end of the day comes down to their experience and whether the lived experience matches up to what the organization says that it is. So, I think that's important to acknowledge inside of the conversation.
Ryan Cohn [00:34:59]:
Well, I mean, you're— that's a really good point because, I mean, they're the ones who are hearing From consumers. They're hearing from the public, where are the issues? Where are those challenges? And then they're going back to the team and saying, okay, I keep hearing that we're struggling with this. Well, what are we doing about it? What can we do about it? And I do find that sometimes as I'm hearing those conversations more on the inside, You end up with a lot of excuses. You end up with, well, we tried this, but we kept hitting the wall. So we didn't— we just— we kind of got stuck in the muck there. Well, that's not enough sometimes. So because, you know, if you're being held accountable, especially to a customer base, to patients, to whomever you're working with, You're going to have to go back to them and answer. You got to answer the tough questions.
Ryan Cohn [00:36:03]:
You have to answer for maybe breakdowns in process or not having a good solution. We need to stop offering hedged reassurance and start showing our work and stop waiting to respond. You don't want to get stuck in the muck. Whoever gets their story on the record first, is who sets the narrative. And everyone else spends the rest of the cycle playing the correction game. So be out there first.
Sara Payne [00:36:37]:
Yeah, love that. Well said. I feel like there's— to tie a nice bow on this conversation today, I was going to ask you, you know, what's one thing healthcare organizations should stop doing? I think you just gave a great list of what they should be doing? What's one thing they should stop doing when trying to influence public understanding or behavior in their communications?
Ryan Cohn [00:37:04]:
Stop defaulting to the CEO. Start training your clinical leaders, start looking at others who you may not have considered before. Bring others to the table and start partnering with other organizations, with your partners, with patient advocacy groups. Try to build a bigger tent. That's one of the challenges that we sometimes see, especially in some of those industries and types of companies that are perceived as having a lot of influence today, but maybe people don't want them to have such a big seat at the table, they're still looked to as important as part of that conversation. They're just not the right trusted entities to speak up about it. So they need to join forces with others like clinicians, like researchers or patient advocates to be able to help echo some of that messaging to speak from their lived perspectives, to say, hey, here are the issues that matter to all of us. But here's what we're seeing on the front lines, that not every organization has to speak all the time on their own behalf.
Ryan Cohn [00:38:32]:
They don't always have to have something they must say. It's okay to sometimes hand the mic over to others, other trusted entities, other trusted voices, and let them say the message.
Sara Payne [00:38:48]:
Well said. That's, that's great advice. So much goodness and so much richness in this conversation today. Ryan, thank you so much for joining me.
Ryan Cohn [00:38:58]:
Thank you very much, Sara. I really enjoyed this.
Sara Payne [00:39:01]:
Yeah, and I want to remind our listeners that the 2026 Sachs Health Influence Index is available at sachsmedia.com. That's S-A-C-H-S media.com, and we'll be sure to include a link in the show notes. And to everyone listening, thank you for being part of the Health Marketing Collective, where strong leadership meets marketing excellence because the future of healthcare depends on it. We'll see you next time.
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